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@purest1 | |
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1 John 5:7-8a as it appears in KJV is highly disputed, to the extent that many contemporary versions omit it or at least qualify it with a footnote indicating its very likely forgery. |
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@purest1 | 2 October 12 |
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''For there are three that bear record in heaven (the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth) , the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. The brackets being the disputed part.
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@purest1 | 2 October 12 |
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What is your stance on the comma, for or against and why? A general overview can be read on wikipedia http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum
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@banjo | 2 October 12 |
 are you for real? () ??//
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@purest1 | 2 October 12 |
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What's up banjo?
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@purest1 | 2 October 12 |
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.........wow, this place is dying....
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@3696 | 2 October 12 |
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@ purest1 - 2.10.12 - 08:16am ''For there are three that bear record in heaven (the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth) , the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. The brackets being the disputed part. Without a spirit, ud be dead. Without water, ud be dead. Without blood, ud be dead. Your body needs these 3 elements to function, yet u are One person. |
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@purest1 | 2 October 12 |
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I get that @3696. The disputed text is the one saying ''the father, the word and the Holy Ghost and these three are one'', which, if authentic would seem to validate the trinity. Claims are that the weight of manuscript evidence shows it to be a later interpolation which wasn't present in the autograph of the gospel itself.
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@purest1 | 2 October 12 |
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My question is whether you accept it as authentic or forgery and why. The weight of evidence against it has been so heavy that NIV and other versions have already expunged it from the bible. I know there's an informal KJV-only movement which considers KJV an inspired translation. How will such a Christian argue for the retention of the comma?
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@smohamed | 2 October 12 |
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interesting topic purest
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@smohamed | 2 October 12 |
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and it seems that there is a battle between the versions of the bible...
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@bambi60 | 2 October 12 |
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@ smohamed - 2.10.12 - 10:41am interesting topic purest It's my understanding that the bible is overly translated from a veritable gallimaufry of texts and manuscripts over a lot of yrs , who is to even say that every translator was sympathetic to Christ ? Not many people cud even read in those times to authenticate it ... |
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@say.what | 2 October 12 |
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@ 3696 - 2.10.12 - 10:23am Without a spirit, ud be dead. Without water, ud be dead. Without blood, ud be dead. Your body needs these 3 elements to function, yet u are One person. What is a spirit? |
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@smohamed | 2 October 12 |
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@ 3696 - 2.10.12 - 10:23am Without a spirit, ud be dead. Without water, ud be dead. Without blood, ud be dead. Your body needs these 3 elements to function, yet u are One person. without oxygen you will be dead etc etc... |
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@purest1 | 2 October 12 |
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Well, mostly we reconstruct what was most likely in the original manuscripts through textual criticism but sometimes we don't work with the best of manuscripts. We progressively accumulate more and more manuscripts, some better than what we had before. Hence the possibility and sometimes necessity to make a few changes here and there and purify the text further and further.
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@smohamed | 2 October 12 |
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@ bambi60 - 2.10.12 - 11:01am It's my understanding that the bible is overly translated from a veritable gallimaufry of texts and manuscripts over a lot of yrs , who is to even say that every translator was sympathetic to Christ ? Not many people cud even read in those times to authenticate it ... well if you look at the introduction to the old RSv you will find a brief history into the compilation of the KJV... or get phrases like 1400 years of text copying marred with errors, where compielrs could not make out anything they would by consensus fill in what they deem as correctand so forth |
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@purest1 | 2 October 12 |
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@ smohamed - 2.10.12 - 11:06am without oxygen you will be dead etc etc... Isn't it general understanding that the 'spirit' in the passage is the Holy Spirit and not the human spirit/breath? |
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@smohamed | 2 October 12 |
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Correct purest, however the stumbling block is that Jesus seperates himself from the spirit in the bible as well... for e.g. they can blaspheme against him but not the Holy Spirit ..
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@bambi60 | 2 October 12 |
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@ smohamed - 2.10.12 - 11:08am well if you look at the introduction to the old RSv you will find a brief history into the compilation of the KJV... or get phrases like 1400 years of text copying marred with errors, where compielrs could not make out anything they would by consensus fill in what they deem as correctand so forth Do you believe the Vatican has a lot of paperwork and books stored that could clarify ( or refute ) some long held doctrines ? Stuff from hundreds of yrs ago , supressed at the time ? Probably other old institutions too , so we only ever get part of the big picture ? |
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@smohamed | 2 October 12 |
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well there is the apocryphal.. bambi
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@afriend | 2 October 12 |
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@ 3696 - 2.10.12 - 10:23am Without a spirit, ud be dead. Without water, ud be dead. Without blood, ud be dead. Your body needs these 3 elements to function, yet u are One person. A better analogy would be Water Ice Steam, cos in all 3 the substance stays the same, ie H2O. But in thw case of trinity, Father Son Holy spirit are not made up of the same components, so they are 3 separate entities |
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